Episode 151: Update on the U.S. Withdrawal from Afghanistan

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Ian:  Hey everyone, you are listening to Coffee with Gringos. I'm Ian Kennedy.

Paige: And I'm Paige Sutherland.

Ian: And today we're going to be talking about a very important, chilling, and developing story that we have going on in the world right now in the Middle Eastern country of Afghanistan. In recent weeks, the Taliban has taken over the country due to the United States Special Forces and the army leaving the country after almost twenty years of being engaged in a war there. So today Paige and I thought we would be giving updates on what's happening over there, what's really going on. And we just want to give the discretion to all our listeners that this is a developing story, new things are happening every day, so please just keep that in mind as you listen to this podcast episode. So, as always listeners, make sure to go online and check out that audio guide and transcript at www.dynamicenglish.cl. As we mentioned in the last couple of weeks, there's been a lot going on in the Middle Eastern country of Afghanistan. The Taliban, which is a militant, Islamic group, they've seized power after the US was set to complete its withdrawal after an almost twenty-year war. These militants have been storming all over the country, they've been taking over major cities and establishing their own power within the country. And so, as we see a lot is going on. It's been a long twenty years of this war that's going on in the Middle East and so there's a lot to unpack here. So, Paige, the situation in Afghanistan, like we mentioned it's been going on for a long time, and just in the last couple of weeks, we've seen a devastating fall, sort of a devastating outcome to this twenty-year struggle so what's really happening over there right now?

Paige: Yeah, I mean, I think for people in the US, we weren't that surprised with the withdrawal of troops. It is something President Biden has said on the campaign trail and he said for his whole time in office that we've been in Afghanistan for twenty years and pulling out was always the plan, but I think what was a big surprise to everyone was just that troops are being pulled out and how quickly the government fell in Afghanistan. I mean, these US troops spent twenty years training the government's troops and really trying to make the country stable, and the fact that they make this announcement that they're leaving, and it falls this quickly, I think was sad and really shocking that it was taken over by this radical militant group so quickly. And everyone's scared. I mean, the Taliban isn't a democratically-elected government. They've been known to be violent, oppressive, so, I think it's really scary for US citizens that are stuck there and for Afghanistan citizens because you really don't know what it's going to look like being ruled under this militant group. What about you, Ian? Were you pretty shocked how quickly they took over?

Ian: I don't know if shocked would be the word necessarily. I think quite a few people saw this coming. I think what was more surprising to me, and again not surprising because we're talking about politicians in the end for intervention when things come to this, it's often a mess when things end. And so, I don't think I was so surprised at how quickly it felt. I think I just was just kind of shaking my head at the way that that the US withdrew from the country. You would think that after spending twenty years and spending trillions of dollars to invest in this country being able to form their own democracy, their own government, that's good for everyone to have the forces to be able to fight off the Taliban, you would think that after all this time, these would be attainable goals. And we saw that in a matter of weeks, the Taliban just came in and swooped in and took over control of everything. And I think what was most disappointing is just the way it was handled. I'm sure you've seen the videos or heard of the videos of people clinging on to their planes at the Kabul airport in the capital. People were falling to their death trying to get onto airplanes that were flying out of the country. The US also made promises to a lot of people who worked with US forces during this time—interpreters, government officials, translators, other people like this, guides—to say that if you work with us, we'll provide you with a safe haven in the US when you need it and that they were going to provide them with a visa and a safe place and the US just basically took the troops out, see you later, good luck and flew out of the country. And so, all these people that were helpful during this time, they're stuck saying “what happened? I just got screwed basically. The USA they said they’d help me out and now I'm stuck here.” And they're fearing for their lives because they're on a list. The Taliban has got to have a list of people who are working with the US, people that they want to retaliate against. So, we're not just talking about being unhappy, we're talking about potentially deadly outcomes for these people.

Paige: Hey, Ian. Did you know besides the podcast, Dynamic English offers one-on-one classes with native teachers from all over the world?

Ian: Really? But isn't it just a bunch of grammar lessons?

Paige: Nope, it's completely discussion-based and focuses on topics the student is interested in.

Ian: That's amazing. But what if I'm not living in Chile?

Paige: No problem. Dynamic does online classes. You can be living anywhere.

Ian: Great, but I'm a little intimidated to take the class alone. Can I join with a friend?

Paige: Of course. Dynamic offers group classes of up to four. Plus, for the next month, Coffee with Gringos listeners get 10% off individual or group classes. So go online to www.dynamicenglish.cl and mention that you are a listener and get your discount.

Ian: Well, I'm sold. Sign me up.

Paige: And yeah, I mean these people have a right to be afraid. I mean, as we know, on Friday there was a suicide bombing. It was an ISIS terrorist attack on the airport of people trying to leave Afghanistan and thirteen US military soldiers were killed, dozens of Afghan citizens, so it's just horrendous and there's actual violence going on. And, hopefully, it won't continue but President Biden said as of Friday that the US withdrawal will continue, that this terrorist attack will not stop the deadline of Tuesday, August 31 to withdraw troops. So, hopefully, things go smoothly until then. They’re also afraid that they're going to reimpose very harsh Islamic law, that they had in place before. Because just a little backup here for our listeners, the Taliban actually was in charge of Afghanistan from 1996 to 2001, and during this time period, a lot of rights were taken away from especially women under Islamic law. So, women were barred from going to school, working outside the home, they had to wear the complete head to toe covering burqa, they could not leave their house without a male relative and the Taliban were banning music, cutting off people's hands for stealing things, just very barbaric sort of laws. And so, people now are saying now that the President has fled the country, the military coup has happened, and now the Taliban have taken over, they fear that their lives will return to this kind of oppression and that they might be killed for even small things. So, the fear that the country is experiencing is just devastating.

Paige: What's difficult about the situation is, I think it was always going to be chaotic because you're talking about thousands of US troops in a country that's not their own, who's trying to withstand the country's security. So, I think it was always going to be tricky of pulling out when and how much and all that. I think what was most surprising to me was that the US is leaving a country that's not theirs, and the actual government, fled their own country. So that was disappointing to see that the president of this country, the military who's paid to defend their citizens, left the country and left the citizens to just fend for themselves and deal with this Taliban just taking over. And I think that was really disheartening to see just how quickly they were able to just leave their people. Reading some of the articles that looks like the government, unfortunately, had corruption and not having the US there anymore to help out that I feel like it seems in their reports that soldiers are feeling defeated and just gave up on security and that's why the Taliban was easily able to take over. and the images that were going around, you're seeing this militant group with AK-47s sitting in the president's desk. That's pretty scary stuff to see.

Ian: Exactly. I think like you mentioned, corruption was a big problem here in the fall because for many years, there were billions or trillions of dollars pumped into the Afghan security forces in order to be able to defend themselves and unfortunately, soldiers would be siphoning off resources, there were a lot of things lacking for the Army because those higher up officials were just being corrupt and taking that money. You know the morale of the forces of course that affected them and so just a feeling of helplessness as the US was starting to leave, and the Taliban began to creep in more and more. I think those soldiers felt like they didn't have a way to really defend themselves and so that's why it just fell so quickly in a matter of days. and I think what's also a bit disappointing but not surprising to me has been the US government's response to it. Joe Biden's trying to sort of wash his hands, I think of the decision. He's been quoted saying that it could have gone a little bit better, but it's not terrible. He’s trying to paint the situation as something lighter than it really is.

Paige: Fair, I mean I think the other thing too for listeners who obviously most of our listeners probably don't live in Afghanistan that what is going on over there have implications all over the world as the reason we were there in the first place was because of 911, and the rise of terrorism—al Qaeda—which is the group behind that terrorist attack in New York City on the two towers and they were hiding out in Afghanistan. And so, there's this fear that if the Taliban takes over, are they going to harbor more terrorists and our US is a big target but any country really that is of interest to them could be a target if they're able to gain their forces there and get numbers and spread so I think that has world implications if that becomes of this coup .and Afghanistan, as you mentioned even with women, under their rule, as you mentioned earlier, in the late 90s they were really oppressive to women. We’re now in 2021 where women have gained a lot more rights back then they weren't able to go to school and all these kinds of basic things and weren't able to drive. So that's kind of scary to just go back in time if that's what's going to happen, and you're seeing a lot of the news reports and the Taliban are saying they're going to compromise and they're promising all these things, but can you really negotiate with a group that just took over the government with violent forces? It’s kind of hard to take their word that they're going to be respectful to women and have all these civil rights and won't harbor terrorists. Should we believe them?

Ian: Exactly. Yeah, the Taliban has come out and they've said look, we are going to govern in a different way. We’re going to allow more freedoms; women can continue to have the rights that they have. But like you said, because of their past and the fact that they're a militant group, it's hard for people to take their word, obviously. I think people are just very hesitant to believe them and, obviously, very worried about what's going to happen next. Like we said, this is really developing, so it's not super clear what's going to happen next, but like we mentioned the Taliban said that they want to form an inclusive, quote-unquote, Islamic government. They’re holding negotiations with other politicians that actually still there. They pledged to enforce this Islamic law, but after all this time of being violent and oppressive, it's again, it's hard to take their word. Another thing, like you mentioned, a lot of people are just asking the question, why would we be there in the first place? We mentioned that, but for twenty years people have been questioning why are we still continuing with this effort? Is it really worth it? I mean, I even have friends personally who I talked to when they were in Afghanistan on tour fighting, and they would tell me, “I don't know what I'm doing here. I don't know what we're doing here in Afghanistan.” So, if you have soldiers on the ground telling you they don't know what they're doing there with the objective is, US generals even say we're not quite sure what we're doing here, then you know it's a little frustrating to see twenty years of all that money pumped in, thousands of civilians and soldiers dying for what?

Paige: It’s a very fair question to have and I think we'll never know the answer. I mean it's tough to say what could have been if we weren't still there with the Taliban just been ruling Afghanistan for those twenty years if we never went. So, it is tough but it does feel discouraging that all this time and lives and money when this happened so quickly. It was like nothing helped.

Ian: Right, exactly. And like we said, we'll just have to see what happens in the next coming weeks and really hope that things really improve and won't be too devastating or harsh for the people of Afghanistan.

Paige: Yeah, as Ian said, this is a very evolving situation. As of now, the president said most US citizens and troops should be out of the country by now. We'll see if that comes to fruition and also just what will happen under this new government. I mean, they're making promises. They’re saying they're going to be better and they want to create an actual civil government. We hope they stay to their word, but I think me and Ian and most people are pretty skeptical. So, hope for the best, I guess, and just wait and see. As always, listeners, if you get lost, check out that audio guide and transcript online www.dynamic english.cl. Thanks for listening.

Ian: We'll see you next time.

Ian: “Coffee with Gringos” officially has over one hundred episodes and we are among the “Top Podcasts in Chile”. And that’s thanks to you. But we are always working to grow our audience so make sure to rate sure to rate, review and share us.  

Key Vocabulary, Phrases & Slang:

 1.     discretion (noun): caution; consideration.

a.     Viewer discretion is advised due to the graphic nature of the video.

2.     to seize (verb): take control of something suddenly and forcibly.

a.     The Taliban seized power in Afghanistan in a matter of weeks.

3.     to unpack (verb): to analyze something into its component elements.

a.     It’s a really complicated issue and there is a lot to unpack in order to solve it.

4.     devastating (adjective): highly destructive or damaging causing shock or distress.

a.     The takeover is devastating for the people of the country.

5.     oppressive (adjective): cruel; harsh; repressive.

a.     The oppressive rule of the Taliban is a major concern for the people.

6.     attainable (adjective): achievable; possible.

a.     The goals were not attainable in the end.  

7.     to swoop in (phrasal verb): to move quickly and replace something.

a.     The Taliban swooped in all over the country to take control.

8.     to cling (verb): to hold on tightly to.  

a.     It was terrible to see people clinging to the plane at the airport.

9.     safe haven (noun): a place of safety or security.

a.     The people are looking for a safe haven to escape to.

10.  screwed (adjective): in a difficult or hopeless situation.

a.     A lot of the people feel screwed for being left without any help.

11.  to retaliate (verb): to attack in return or revenge for a similar attack.

a.     Many are afraid that other groups will retaliate for the actions.

12.  horrendous (adjective): horrifying; terrible; extremely unpleasant.

a.     The scenes at the airport are absolutely horrendous to see.

13.  to reimpose (adjective): to impose a law or regulation again.

a.     The Taliban will likely reimpose old laws regarding women.

14.  to bar (verb): prevent or prohibit from doing something.

a.     Women were barred from most basic human rights.

15.  burqa (noun): a long loose garment covering the whole body from head to feet, worn in public by many Muslim women.

a.     Women can be severely punished for not wearing a burqa in public.

16.  barbaric (adjective): savagely cruel; brutal; primitive.

a.     The barbaric actions of the group will not go unpunished.

17.  to fend (verb): to look after and provide for oneself, without any help from others.  

a.     The government should be able to fend for itself but it cannot.

18.  disheartening (adjective): causing someone to lose determination or confidence.

a.     The news has been so disheartening to hear.

19.  AK-47 (noun): a type of assault rifle originally made in the Soviet Union.

a.     With thousands of AK-47s and other weapons, the Taliban are a true threat.

20.  to pump into (phrasal verb): to invest a large amount of money into something.

a.     After twenty years of pumping money into the country, there is still nothing to show for.

21.  to siphon (verb): to draw off or transfer over a period of time; especially illegally.

a.     Generals have been siphoning off resources and money during the entire war.

22.  wash one’s hands (idiom): to take away responsibility for something.

a.     The president is trying to wash his hands clean of the situation.

23.  to harbor (verb): to shelter or hide.

a.     The groups are harboring each other in cooperation against the special forces.

24.  to take one’s word (idiom): to believe what someone is saying to be true.  

a.     It’s difficult to take their word after everything they did in the past.

25.  to pledge (verb): to commit or promise something.

a.     They pledge to treat women with respect and allow more rights than before.

26.  on tour (adjective): serving a period of time in a combat or danger in the military.

a.     After being on tour for nine months, he finally returned home to his family.

27.  skeptical (adjective): not easily convinced; having doubts or reservations.

a.     The public were deeply skeptical about some of the decisions made in the country.